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What Epoxy Do You Use

Discussion in 'Fit & Finish' started by Flinders Adventures, Oct 15, 2015.

  1. poppa bear

    poppa bear Member

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    I use G2 but have also used but on my personal knives I use liquid nails, 5 min epoxy from the dollar store, sometimes I mix up a small batch of polyester resin.

    If it fails on my personal knives the it gives me an excuse to look at the wifey and day, "awe hun look, I have to go back to the shop and fix thishours". So I go and play for a few hours. Lol.

    I know some frown on what I use on my personal knives but I have used them almost every day and they haven't failed yet. Living in the county let's you torture test stuff you make nicely I find. So I guess what I'm saying is makers choice just research what your thinking of using carefully and see if it covers the application your looking for from water resistance /proofing, how it might or will come out after sanding, how it will harden, etc.

    If it's your first knife experiment and see how it holds up. Your first knife is always a learning ground. Then again make that your first 10 or do, get a feel for what you like using and so on. If you never challenge yourself or what you might learn you never know what your capable of producing.

    Anyway I'm jumping off the soap box and for what it's worth that's my 10 cents (inflation from it being 2 cents and tax, darn government Lol)

    Pb
     
  2. Mythtaken

    Mythtaken Staff Member CKM Staff

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    Like some of the others, I've always used Gorilla or LePage epoxy, mostly because they're easy to find. I agree those may not be the best holding epoxies under all conditions, but I don't rely on them alone. I always use mechanical bonding as well.
     
  3. bob682

    bob682 New Member

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    I am using 3M EC1751 structural epoxy, its made for helicopters. drawback is that its grey and really thick so it need to be clamped perfectly, and make sure it doesn't get anywhere you don't want it to be. I have only done my first knife with it so far, so I am hoping it hold to my expectation, I think its a given to stay away from epoxies that cure really hard as they become very brittle.
     
  4. Griff

    Griff Active Member

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    I am an Auto Body/ Collision rep and my 2 knives have Norton 2 part acrylic on them. I am testing this stuff on my knives because I have access to it at employee pricing. I will let you know how things work out, the only down side is they are mostly black in colour, and a bugger to clean if you don't get at it immediately...the Norton 04616 has only a 5 min work time!!!!!!

    3M's Panel Bond 08115 has tiny glass beads to prevent over clamping (I have yet to use it, longer work time of 90 minutes and a 24 hr cure time at room temp). 08115 is used to fix panels on cars, in some places as an approved alternative to welding because of the bond/ shear strength. 08115 also has excellent bonding for 'Plastics', this usually translates to other substrates, and I know that it adheres to fibreglass and SMC...but I have to test it to be sure on scales. The Norton 04616 will bond metal, wood, SMC, fibreglass, composites etc.

    Also because I am in this field I do not finish the Steel under the handles above 50G, I do this for what is called, 'Mechanical Adhesion,' 50G scratches on the steel and the inside of the scales will give the epoxy something to bite into, adding bonding strength. I also use auto refinish grade surface cleaner/ degreasers plus 3M adhesion promoter before hand. You can get 3M's adhesion promoter in an aerosol 05907 or packets 06396, the packet stuff is nasty so use gloves. All this, of course, means I am not planning on having removable scales :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
    SDMay and John Noon like this.
  5. Griff

    Griff Active Member

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    Okay this morning I woke up and had a face-palm moment!

    The epoxy/acrylic's I mentioned above need special applicator guns, which would mean price/cost would defeat the benefits of trying them! This one would probably work on the Norton cartridges: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/dual-cartridge-specialty-caulking-gun/A-p8596439e

    But all is not lost, another great company Evercoat (I believe it's still Canadian run) has its Maxim line to compete with 3M and Norton, the beauty is they came up with a 2 part product that chambers inside a caulking tube! So all you need is a heavy duty caulking gun like this heavier ratcheting type:
    https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/dripless-caulking-gun/A-p8452682e

    Here's some more info on Maxim Adhesives if you are interested http://www.evercoat.com/adhesives/us/
    You can get this through Collision Supply jobbers, for example Napa stores with CMAX attached - their Collision department, or by special order if it's just Napa.

    Griff
     
  6. cuatroXcuatro

    cuatroXcuatro Active Member

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    Another sailor and West System fan, I have 3 different hardeners depending on desired pot life and ambient temperature. For scales I use intermediate, gives me at least an hour's working time and sets up completely in 24 hours. There is also a Canadian knock off brand called East System (lol) which I have used and was unable to see any difference in quality, it's a lot cheaper than West.
    Gary, (putterer) what kind of boat did you sail?
     
  7. SDMay

    SDMay Active Member

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    I've used Deacon five minute for three of my knives but two aren't finished yet. They will be in the hands of one of my friends two teenage boys to torture test out at their property. Will see how they stand up.

    For the ones that I have given as gifts, all paring type knives, I have used Norton Speed grip like Griff said. Figure if you can glue a car together then it should work fine for knife handles. They have different cure times which is cool. Never saw the Evercoat stuff but I will be taking a look when I get back to work.
     
  8. Kevin Cox

    Kevin Cox KC knives

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    I use G2 and E 120 HP
     
  9. ToddR

    ToddR Putterer, Tinkerer, Waster of Time Staff Member

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    I used Devcon 2 ton for the first 10 or so knives I've done. Then I ran out (small bottle) and bought some G2 from Lee Valley. I've done about 3 knives with it and no complaints yet. The G2 does seem to go on a lot "runnier" than Devcon. Not a big deal, maybe even a little easier to clean up.
     
  10. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    Devcon on others like it have more filler than other higher strength brands which is why they are not as runny. Not to say you can't use a pinch of glass beads as a thickener and they will not crush easily so there will always be a thin layer of glue after clamping
     
  11. Jason

    Jason New Member

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    So far with the reviews Ive read Ive used Devcon 2 ton epoxy on 4 of my knives. And im almost out of the bottles. I dont skimp out on the epoxy when applying. Ive also used the Loctite epoxy and its no good. When trying to sand down my handles loctite seems to loosen up under the heat very fast. Devcon on the other hand has a higher temperture tolerance. Specially nice when sanding down copper or brass inserts which tend to absorb alot of heat. Anyways my question is does anyone recommend another type of epoxy that is water proof and heat resistant that is easy to find. Maybe something along the lines of a marine epoxy?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  12. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    Marine epoxy will have little to no filler and "Boat" makes it pricey. Not as bad as T-88 which is a structural epoxy used on aircraft and boat transoms.

    G2 Epoxy works well as long as you cool the handle frequently and any epoxy that can handle temperatures above 250F without breaking down you would not want around your shop.

    Epoxy should be a gold to yellow color and anything that is white and pasty like cheap store brand epoxies are loaded with filler material
     
  13. dancom

    dancom Dust Maker Best Shop Tool

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    I have been using West System G-flex. Marine shops carry it and it's sold online of course. The instructions that come with G-flex are very detailed and informational. You come to realize that surface preparation is 90% of the battle. Even the minutes between cleaning and applying the epoxy allows surface oxidization to occur. My next favorite is Brownells Acraglas (the regular version, not the gel stuff). These are both professional products you won't find in the local hardware store.
     
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  14. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    interesting note: Surface oxidization is not visible to the naked eye until it exceeds 800 atoms deep
     
  15. cuatroXcuatro

    cuatroXcuatro Active Member

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    Another vote for West System G-Flex. Have been working with West System products for years, they are the marine standard, period. I like a long pot life and G-Flex gives you plenty of working time.
     
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  16. ToddR

    ToddR Putterer, Tinkerer, Waster of Time Staff Member

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    I've done several more knives with the G-Flex now and it is working great. I agree with everything said above. It is definitely golden colour and runnier than normal. I learned my lesson about surface prep as well and to make sure everything fits first and you are ready to go. There is nothing (literally nothing- it sucks bad) worse than fiddling around with scales covered in epoxy because the pins won't fit because you're trying to put them on backwards or something. I hate that feeling of expoxy on your fingertips. Like a layer of numb skin and you can't feel anything with your fingertips. Aaaarghhh... makes me cringe thinking about it. Give me nails on a blackboard anyday. Anyway, back to the point - G-Flex was relatively easy to find online. I'm an amazon freak though. I buy everything online. The joys of being an antisocial recluse.
     
  17. Jason

    Jason New Member

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    Hey ToddR, I hate that dried epoxy feeling too lol, I learned the best way to avoid that is to wear non powdered latex gloves. Feels abit sticky as it starts to dry but nothing gets on your hands. And you can find them literally anywhere, walmart the dollar store...etc.
    Thanks to John Noon I found a local marina that sells G-Flex so im going to pick some up and give it a try.
     
  18. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    I have a box of latex gloves here almost all left handed anyone have right hand gloves they want to share :roflmao
     
  19. Griff

    Griff Active Member

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    Funny thing @John Noon , that keeps happening to me too, so I can't help you lol :D:p

    So not to beat a dead horse, because I have said this before, a lot of us (and each to their own) are having to worry about how good an epoxy is on its own because the finish of the steel under the handles is being finished to the same high standard as the rest of the knife.

    When this is done it skips the benefits of every epoxy's best friend Mechanical Bonding (Mechanical Adhesion).
    If you are going for non-removable scales or handle, and you want the utter most chance for them stay on the knife, give your old epoxy pal a helping hand and give it some deep scratches to sink into and bond with, at least 180G if you can't bear to leave 80G or lower under there!

    By the way, for the record, I totally understand finishing the handle of the knife under the scales to the same standard as the rest of the knife if there's even a remote chance the customer / end user will see under there. A high standard finish with removable scales, well that goes without saying.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  20. Jason

    Jason New Member

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    So all this being said theres afew different g-flex options. Theres 650 and 655 which do you guys prefer? I believe 650 is more liquid and 655 is thicker.
     

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