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Atp-641 Coating

Discussion in 'Heat Treating' started by John Noon, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    Did a test today on a tool made with A2 tool steel. It was a huge success


    ATP-641

    Tool Made; Head shaping tool for copper rivets, body thickness is the maximum extension of rivet needed allowing length for filing flat before shaping.

    APPLICATION OF ATP-641
    Mixing Instructions: For best results, the coatings should be well suspended and mixed. Coatings supplied at viscosity which can be adjusted for most coating techniques and processes. The viscosity can be adjusted with water and electrolytes.

    Metal Preparation: Metal surfaces must be free of dirt, oil, grease and loose scale for best results.

    How to Apply: The water based coatings can be sprayed with conventional, electrostatic or airless spray systems. May also be flow coated, dipped or brushed.

    Thickness: The proper thickness depends on the metal to be processed, time and temperature. Coating thickness is most important and must be controlled.

    Drying: The coatings are water based and should be dried. They can be applied to preheated metal up to temperatures of 150-200 F. They can be air dried or dried in a drier.
    ATP-641 may be used in an electric knife makers kiln, furnace or forge.
    A2 TYPICAL APPLICATIONS
    Typical applications for A2 tool steel are blanking, forming, and trim dies, stamping dies, coining dies, thread roller dies, knurls, knurling tools, mandrels, master hobs, cold forming tools, spindles, shear blades, slitter blades, molds, punches, block and ring gauges, punch plates, reamers, brick mold liners, forming rolls, etc
    HEAT TREATING
    PREHEAT PRIOR TO HARDENING
    Insert coated part into furnace at preheat temperature of 1350-1450F and hold at this temperature until part is uniformly heated.
    HARDENING
    After thorough preheating, heat to 1750-1800F. Hold the work piece at the hardening temperature until it is completely and uniformly heated.
    QUENCHING
    A2 is an air hardening steel and will develop full hardness on cooling in still air and the majority of ATP-641 will fall off before 150F is reached. IF some ATP-641 remains attached it can be removed with water followed immediately be a temper cycle

    Tool after air quenching and prior to tempering
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    https://canadian-artisan.com/knife-making/heat-treating/
     
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  2. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    Customer sent in a picture of the first knife he used ATP-641 on, only thing on the blade is quench oil and residual clay on the handle area.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    You can see the difference between oil quenching and air quenching. Oil is nice and even color while the air quench creates a interesting rainbow.
    If the stainless steel you use can handle a oil quench then it will come out similarly
     
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  4. Griff

    Griff Active Member

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    @John Noon I noticed that Brownells carries ATP-641, and then their own branded Anit-scale compound. For their branded one, which could be ATP-641 with a Brownells label on it for all I know, they recommend heating the steel to 500F, apply, then place blade/part into the oven and continue ramp up to recommenced heat-treatment temp for whichever steel your using. Would you say this was close to your findings on ATP-641?

    Also Jeremy from Simple Little Life posted a pail of this stuff on his Instagram story noting how thick and stodgy it is...this is only a guess, but I am assuming if it’s still too thick after using a drill to stir it, it’s gone bad! Especially since it’s supposed to have a sprayable viscosity.

    Let me know your thoughts John, I want to try that quart out!
     
  5. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what the brownells branded product is but there are a couple of similar products available.

    All anti-scale coatings have a minimum temperature that is required before inserting parts into the furnace.

    The ATP-641 is water soluble mix and viscosity can be adjusted. I had a pail for five years and it still worked, did have to add water lost through evaporation.
    The fun part is having a pail that solidifies during shipping and needs lots of stirring.

    The pails I get in are mixed when ordered and don’t hang around long so going bad is unlikely If at all possible.

    ATP-641 is suitable for spraying and like paints the viscosity has to be measured and adjusted before hand. As it comes in the pail it is best for brush application and even then the addition of water is beneficial.

    The information sheets show the minimum and maximum temperature for the ATP product line.
     
  6. Dave Hodson

    Dave Hodson Member

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    Any problems shipping ATP-641 in the winter John? Not sure what it is about Fort McMurray but I've had more than one parcel show up frozen solid on my doorstep.

    Regards
    Dave
     
  7. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    It is water and clay but freezing is not supposed to harm the product.
    Let thaw then stir like crazy

    At one time the bus companies had trailers for mail to northern addresses or large unheated trucks so freezing is inevitable.

    The small containers I bag and vacuum seal so nothing gets lost if package freezes or broken. There is foiled bubble wrap insulation that might help slow freezing.

    One gallon size I have only shipped a couple to larger cities so they may not have time to freeze in winter.
     
  8. Dave Hodson

    Dave Hodson Member

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    Thanks John. Hopefully spring is just around the corner. I have a bit of foil to use up so once that's done I'll order some.
     
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  9. Griff

    Griff Active Member

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    What’s the mix ratio ATP-641 : Water if you need to thin it out?
     
  10. John Noon

    John Noon Well-Known Member

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    very little water at a time then stir and repeat. Easy to put in but hard to take out excess.
    Think of adding water to porridge and how fast that goes to soup
     
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